Curse

BE|Dac · Jun 09, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

from guildwars.com

The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing, so you won't need to spend hundreds of hours leveling up your character to compete.

Guilds can challenge other guilds to battle, compete for control of key parts of the world, and be ranked on a worldwide ladder

Guild Wars heroes come in all types: male and female, large and small, and in any of 36 combinations of the six professions: Warrior, Ranger, Monk, Elementalist, Mesmer, and Necromancer. With more than 150 unique skills per character, which can be combined for any number of effects, the possibilities are mind boggling.

You don't have to spend countless hours on a leveling treadmill to get to the interesting parts of the game, because combat is designed to be strategically interesting and challenging right from the beginning. You don't have to spend hours running around the world to prepare for a quest, because Guild Wars allows you to instantly travel to the beginning of any quest that you've previously unlocked. You'll never spend days playing, only to discover that the choices you made early have left you with a permanently uncompetitive character. The unique skill system in Guild Wars encourages infinite experimentation

new mission-based design that eliminates some of the more tedious aspects of those games

both easy to learn and compelling to play long term, and yet does not require players to spend hundreds of hours slogging through the preparation just to get to the fun bits.

we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game).

Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild.

How much of the above is actually in the game?

Witt78 · Jun 09, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

How much of the above is actually in the game?

All of it... Have you ever played a game like Everquest? Where you literally need to play for 5-8 hours a day 5 days a week, for 3 years just to get to a high enough level to START doing interesting things.

Don't get me wrong. Everquest 1 is still my favorite game of ALL time. Even though I'm absolutely SICK of it.

But the fact remains... There is NO Grinding in Guild Wars. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to level an Everquest 1 character up to lvl 65. Then come back and we'll talk.

-Witt78

BE|Dac · Jun 09, 2005, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witt78

All of it... Have you ever played a game like Everquest? Where you literally need to play for 5-8 hours a day 5 days a week, for 3 years just to get to a high enough level to START doing interesting things.

Don't get me wrong. Everquest 1 is still my favorite game of ALL time. Even though I'm absolutely SICK of it.

But the fact remains... There is NO Grinding in Guild Wars. Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to level an Everquest 1 character up to lvl 65. Then come back and we'll talk.

-Witt78

Amazing comparison.

STFU,

thats the stupidest argument in the world.

Read the above statements by me.

No I am not a pin in a haystack, there are people that have played lineage 2 for 6 months straight 12 hours a day that say the grind in guildwars is retarded. Because what? At least when you are done grinding in Lineage 2 you can absolutely spoil peoples time and have fun ganking everyone, in guildwars you can compete in a non existant ladder or the same tombs every night? The key is competition and there is 1/100th of the competition in even beta. That is ridiculous.

Here is a good comparison. Progress quest vrs Guildwars. I think you are looking for progress quest for your gaming needs.

"yet does not require players to spend hundreds of hours slogging through the preparation just to get to the fun bits." quoted form Anet.

"yet does not require players to spend hundreds of hours slogging through the preparation just to get to the fun bits." quoted form Anet.

Oh yah your totally right Grinding is the fun bits? Or is it searching for any spot that drops runes then watching it get nerfed that brings a smile to every player?

DarrenJasper · Jun 09, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

I'm really glad someone found this, I was looking for it earlier when the grinders were all shouting "ITS AN RPG WHICH MEANS IT HAS TO HAVE GRIND". Thanks for posting it.

Rasp · Jun 09, 2005, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

The unique skill system in Guild Wars encourages infinite experimentation

How is this not in the game? 450 skills, tons of counters/strategies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

new mission-based design that eliminates some of the more tedious aspects of those games

Ever played ANY other MMORPG? Spend 2 hours walking from Point A > Point B, farming the same monsters over and over for EXP, etc..

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

both easy to learn and compelling to play long term, and yet does not require players to spend hundreds of hours slogging through the preparation just to get to the fun bits.

Hmm. I haven't spend 100 hours online yet, and I have lots of fun in PvP and PvE. More fun in PvP, and I have *very few* runes/upgrades/skills unlocked. I do quite fine, I don't need *every* skill in the game to be competitive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild.

And it's not? I've yet to be on a n00b team that does not attempt to use brainpower to win, and actually win. I'm sorry but it does require skill, not time spent nor size of my guild.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

How much of the above is actually in the game?

Your post is ridiculous. Some people these days...

You can argue till you turn blue in the face, you do NOT have to have every skill/rune/upgrade unlocked to be competitive in PvP. I don't and I do quite fine, maybe you just suck at it?

Aug · Jun 09, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

The game delivers very little of what that PR statement says. However, all of us who were saying GW is an MMO were basing our opinion on what the game actually IS, not what marketing claims it to be. The two things don't agree.

We'll just have to wait and see how far down the CORPG path A.Net goes. Right now, they're pretty much using the exact same model as every other MMO out there.

BE|Dac · Jun 09, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

How is this not in the game? 450 skills, tons of counters/strategies.

Im guessing the average player has access to approx 100 maybe. Of these 30 are probably worthless.

Ever played ANY other MMORPG? Spend 2 hours walking from Point A > Point B, farming the same monsters over and over for EXP, etc..
CORPG vrs MMORPG.

It is a competitive game not a progress quest for parent's basement losers.

Hmm. I haven't spend 100 hours online yet, and I have lots of fun in PvP and PvE. More fun in PvP, and I have *very few* runes/upgrades/skills unlocked. I do quite fine, I don't need *every* skill in the game to be competitive.

You actually do, how many HoH have you taken? How many GvG have you won? Maybe the reason you seem fine is because you have not played top guilds and seen what skill combos can do along with optimized builds.

And it's not? I've yet to be on a n00b team that does not attempt to use brainpower to win, and actually win. I'm sorry but it does require skill, not time spent nor size of my guild.

Unfortunately Time Spent can make up for a lot of skill when the bonus is somewhere around 25% for time spent, not to mention versatility and ability to fit in a team better when you have more selection of roles.

How much of the above is actually in the game?

Your post is ridiculous. Some people these days... :rolleyes

Yah what are we thinking asking for a fun game without grind and competitive pvp, o wait thats what we where promised, and now we are wondering where it is hiding.

Epinephrine · Jun 09, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

I have to say, I am tired of the comparisons to mindlessly boring grindfests I wouldn't play.

I don't play EQ, or any MMORPG, precisely because of the nature of the game. All of the info on GW led me to believe it was going to be different, and it is, to an extent. It however, has not yet stepped up and made the changes that would be needed to make it grind free. The PvE is great fun, I actually really enjoy it with a good group, and I would play chapters of it for the PvE experience. I don't think it should have ANYTHING to do with the PvP aspect of it. There should be no grind required to have an equal footing in PvP.

To those who say things like Rasp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasp

Your post is ridiculous. Some people these days... You can argue till you turn blue in the face, you do NOT have to have every skill/rune/upgrade unlocked to be competitive in PvP. I don't and I do quite fine, maybe you just suck at it?

You are obviously unfamiliar with the idea of high level play. To compete in anything at higher levels requires having access to the tools. I hate repeating myself, but in many competitions hundredths of seconds matter. All things being equal, the player with more choices/better gear will win more often. It's a fact, not a theory. Just because you do "quite fine" means nothing, I don't want to do "quite fine" or be limited to being "quite fine". I don't want to lose by a hair and know it was because I had a major instead of a superior.

To those who say that GW isn't about PvP, and that you should "earn" your PvPing gear through mindless toil:

from FAQ, guildwars.com:

Quote:

Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild

from Game Synopsis, guildwars.com:

Quote:

If you like Player-versus-Player competition, Guild Wars was made for you. In addition to building up a character by undergoing missions and quests, you can choose to create a character specifically for head-to-head PvP competition or guild warfare. The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing...

from interview with RPG Vault:

Quote:

We designed the character system so that the outcome of combat is determined by which player is the most skilled, not by which player spent the most hours building up his character.

from an interview with GameZone.com, Gaile Gray:

Quote:

Q: Please explain how a casual player can compete with the hard-core MMPer who will spend a lot of hours leveling their toon?

Gaile: Our primary design goal with Guild Wars is to create a game that provides meaningful competition. In other words, we are not trying to find arbitrary mechanics to ensure that a casual player has a shot at defeating a hardcore veteran. Instead, we focus on designing the combat mechanics around player skill rather than the number of hours you have invested in the game. A classic strategy game like chess is a good example. If you have been playing and studying for ten years, and I have just read “Chess for Dummies” and decide to challenge you, chances are very low that I will defeat you. But is it possible? Is there a chance that I am just a brilliant player and might find a way to expose a weakness in your play style? You bet. And that's what makes classic strategy games so much fun. It is a level playing field, and the rules don't dictate who wins or loses based on any factor other than the skill of the players.

Rasp · Jun 09, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

How is this not in the game? 450 skills, tons of counters/strategies.

Im guessing the average player has access to approx 100 maybe. Of these 30 are probably worthless.

Ever played ANY other MMORPG? Spend 2 hours walking from Point A > Point B, farming the same monsters over and over for EXP, etc..
CORPG vrs MMORPG.

It is a competitive game not a progress quest for parent's basement losers.

Hmm. I haven't spend 100 hours online yet, and I have lots of fun in PvP and PvE. More fun in PvP, and I have *very few* runes/upgrades/skills unlocked. I do quite fine, I don't need *every* skill in the game to be competitive.

You actually do, how many HoH have you taken? How many GvG have you won? Maybe the reason you seem fine is because you have not played top guilds and seen what skill combos can do along with optimized builds.

And it's not? I've yet to be on a n00b team that does not attempt to use brainpower to win, and actually win. I'm sorry but it does require skill, not time spent nor size of my guild.

Unfortunately Time Spent can make up for a lot of skill when the bonus is somewhere around 25% for time spent, not to mention versatility and ability to fit in a team better when you have more selection of roles.

How much of the above is actually in the game?

Your post is ridiculous. Some people these days... :rolleyes

Yah what are we thinking asking for a fun game without grind and competitive pvp, o wait thats what we where promised, and now we are wondering where it is hiding.

You got what you were promised. You do NOT have to farm! Competitive PvP? Isn't all PvP competitve? ******* whiner.

Witt78 · Jun 09, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

Amazing comparison.

STFU,

thats the stupidest argument in the world.

Read the above statements by me.

If your own opinion is the only one you are willing to hold any value to. Then why did you post this here?

Oh! To start another rant. Sorry. I won't further participate.

To the Admin. Here is another thread to close.... I give it 12 hours to live.

-Witt78

BE|Dac · Jun 09, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasp

You got what you were promised. You do NOT have to farm! Competitive PvP? Isn't all PvP competitve? ******* whiner.

You dont have to do anything in any game, but to be competitive, yes i must farm.

Yamat · Jun 09, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Beware, Escaped Troll!

BE|Dac · Jun 09, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witt78

If your own opinion is the only one you are willing to hold any value to. Then why did you post this here?

Oh! To start another rant. Sorry. I won't further participate.

To the Admin. Here is another thread to close.... I give it 12 hours to live.

-Witt78

Dude EQ2 is out, you are missing out on grindfest 2, a little crack on the side and you can be on your way to an enjoyable game experience.

hahaha or wait you realized its retarded to work at a video game?

I play for FUN.

Rasp · Jun 09, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

You dont have to do anything in any game, but to be competitive, yes i must farm.

You do NOT have to farm to be competitve. You are making yourself believe you have to farm to be competitive.

Like I said, maybe you just suck?

No! That couldn't be it.

I give up, you're not going to quit whining. Just annoying having 5/10 new threads on this forums, nothing but moan threads.

BE|Dac · Jun 09, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasp

You do NOT have to farm to be competitve. You are making yourself believe you have to farm to be competitive.

Like I said, maybe you just suck?

No! That couldn't be it.

eek nooo I suck at this game.

I am rank 7.

Sit down.

iRuN · Jun 09, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

You dont have to do anything in any game, but to be competitive, yes i must farm.

lol......... Havn't farmed once and I do more killing in pvp than being killed.. I HAVE dont GvG and HoH pretty good amount of times, I've even done these with pre-made builds with no additional skills that i've unlocked.. but according to you we "MUST" grind to be any sort of decent character.. pfft.. the things kids moan about these days

EDIT: this is my first and last post because I'd rather not upset the almighty rank 7!!1!1!!!

Aug · Jun 09, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasp

Ever played ANY other MMORPG? Spend 2 hours walking from Point A > Point B, farming the same monsters over and over for EXP, etc..

I did that last night in Riverside. I spent ~5 minutes running, and then 5 minutes fighting. For about 4 hours straight. Seems pretty much the same as any other MMORPG.

Quote:

Hmm. I haven't spend 100 hours online yet, and I have lots of fun in PvP and PvE. More fun in PvP, and I have *very few* runes/upgrades/skills unlocked. I do quite fine, I don't need *every* skill in the game to be competitive.

Nope, you don't need them all. But since rune drops are completely random, it is luck, not skill, that gets you the skills you DO need. I want to play a Monk in PvP, yet I have found 0 Superior Monk runes.

Quote:

And it's not? I've yet to be on a n00b team that does not attempt to use brainpower to win, and actually win. I'm sorry but it does require skill, not time spent nor size of my guild.

No one said skill wasn't a factor. Merely that it isn't the only factor. The PR blurb up there says time spent in game is a non-factor, but that is demonstrably false. I don't disagree that you can compete and have fun, and maybe even with little time spent in game, but the more time you spend, the greater your chances of winning. I'd say to compete at all, you have to at least have gotten one character ascended, which is a 60-80 hour time investment, completely devoid of "skill".

Quote:

Your post is ridiculous. Some people these days...

You can argue till you turn blue in the face, you do NOT have to have every skill/rune/upgrade unlocked to be competitive in PvP. I don't and I do quite fine, maybe you just suck at it?

Or maybe you don't interpret the same PR statement as most everyone else. The block says time investment is a non-factor, and up to a point that is true (once you've unlocked all the skills & runes you want, spending more time in game gets you nothing). But for the casual gamer that just wants to jump in and PvP, the statement is 100% false.

Rasp · Jun 09, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

eek nooo I suck at this game.

I am rank 7.

Sit down.

1 last post. I thought you had to farm to be competitve, Mr. Rank 7? I smell **** coming from a bull.

Mimu · Jun 09, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

It will take a lot of effort and time to unlock every skill and rune..but why does anybody need every last one?

Every online rpg (I know I will get flamed if I call it an MMORPG.

) requires a little bit of grind, otherwise everybody would be finished within a week..

And which kind of Pvper sounds more skilled? (Or '|337' if you prefer.)

Someone who has a few decent skills and upgrades, the kind which you get for just playing through the game, yet manages to adapt to the situation and still squeeze out a few victories..or some hardcore gamer who is decked out with all of the 'UbAr' armour and lords his victories over the 'newbs'? (I have met my fair share of those wonderful people.)

Be patient, you will unlock the skills..just spend a few hours doing some PvP, and then spend a few in PvE gaining some experience to buy skills.

Or better yet..get your guild to rush you through ascension, then go back and finish the easy missions. Easy skill points!

Whatever you decide to do..please stop with these ridiculous posts, they only serve to create arguments and I think that any point which you may have originally had has been destroyed and completely lost by the flames and constant demands for an 'UAS' button. (Which would completely screw up both sides of the game.)

Edit: Why are you flaming everyone who disagrees with you? Discuss this like an adult, then maybe..just maybe we may come to a reasonable agreement.

Stur · Jun 09, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Wow a thread that mentions me by name, I'm honored. They did say that and that’s fine with me. I enjoys they PvE aspects of the game and I just wish it did not have to take such a beating for them to achieve their goals, oh well I took a brake from getting flamed long enough to go browse BB’s web site and they have Doom3 on sale, will take a brake for awhile and see how things shake out. Good gaming.